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-   -   version for 10.5 almost out? (https://www.shirt-pocket.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3209)

mckingsley 11-25-2007 02:45 PM

version for 10.5 almost out?
 
The other day I saw an update for a preliminary 10.5 version. I did not get it downloaded but since have not seen it. I'm assuming it was pulled. Is there a test version we can try, or _hopefully_ is it going to be out soon?! Thanks

dnanian 11-25-2007 03:06 PM

There has not been an update, no...

gryphonent 11-26-2007 09:11 PM

It's now been a month without a decent update and I'm truly getting frustrated with this "we're ready when we're ready attitude." A backup is better than no backup... it's as simple as that. Mark the beta as Beta, Alpha... some simple incomplete backup is better than no backup.

dnanian 11-26-2007 09:27 PM

I've been updating the blog, if you've looked there. But I'm not going to release a beta or alpha version to the public, sorry. If you need a backup, you have Time Machine... which does work, and is one of the main "reasons" people jumped on Leopard so quickly, no?

shavital 11-27-2007 09:14 AM

SuperDuper! for Leopard
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dnanian (Post 15718)
If you need a backup, you have Time Machine... which does work, and is one of the main "reasons" people jumped on Leopard so quickly, no?

I don't consider Time Machine a substitute, even temporary, for SuperDuper!, because Time Machine does not create a bootable backup.

I am using CCC, that works under Leopard, and creates a bootable backup, but I'd like to continue to rely upon SuperDuper! when (if?) a Leopard compatible release is available.

IMO, of course.

justG 11-27-2007 09:47 AM

I don't know how many more times and in how many more ways we can be told that we'll get a new build when it's ready. If I'm entrusting the integrity of my data to Shirt Pocket, if I'm going to run to them for support if a backup created by their software doesn't work when I'm in a bind, isn't it understandable that they will do whatever they can to ensure, to the best of their ability, that their software never doesn't work?

Those of us who bought Leopard when it was released have had it for a month now. Considering that developers who are members of ADC actually were only able to download the GM *after* we already had our shiny new boxes, and considering how much time a month actually is (not much, for coding and QA), and considering the importance of my data to me, I'm content to wait for SD! until it's ready. Those of us who aren't are welcome to look for other solutions, and that's fine. But how does it help to badger the developer to release something? Given the reports I've read about the integrity of CCC's clones and smart updates being called into question over time, it's clear enough to me that the time Shirt Pocket are investing into making SD! rock-solid is not time squandered.

We've had blog updates and have some indication of the snags that Shirt Pocket are encountering. I think it's been made pretty clear, at least to my satisfaction, that they're not sitting on their laurels and getting a laugh out of making us wait. I'm impatient too (my first post on these forums, embarrassingly enough, was to request an ETA), but I think that wondering "if" a Leopard update is coming, when we know it is, is kind of uncalled for.

I don't mean to cause anyone any offence, but as one who visits these forums daily (and therefore sees similar sentiments constantly articulated), I just think we should lay off 'em for a bit. If I thought we could speed development along by wielding a cattle prod, I'd be first in line to do so. =]

shavital 11-27-2007 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by justG (Post 15723)
Given the reports I've read about the integrity of CCC's clones and smart updates being called into question over time, it's clear enough to me that the time Shirt Pocket are investing into making SD! rock-solid is not time squandered.

We've had blog updates and have some indication of the snags that Shirt Pocket are encountering. I think it's been made pretty clear, at least to my satisfaction, that they're not sitting on their laurels and getting a laugh out of making us wait. I'm impatient too (my first post on these forums, embarrassingly enough, was to request an ETA), but I think that wondering "if" a Leopard update is coming, when we know it is, is kind of uncalled for.

I don't mean to cause anyone any offence, but as one who visits these forums daily (and therefore sees similar sentiments constantly articulated), I just think we should lay off 'em for a bit. If I thought we could speed development along by wielding a cattle prod, I'd be first in line to do so. =]

Before I subscribed to this forum, I have been in contact by e-mail with ShirtPocket, mentioned CCC, and expressed my total confidence in ShirtPocket, while waiting for the release of a SD Leopard compatible version.

I am not using CCC as a cattle prod, just mentioning that it has worked for me. I'll be more specific: it has worked for me when performing an erase and clone backup. I didn't try CCC's smart updates, because I know there are still questionable.

To the point: I'll stop wondering "if" an update is coming, when that update is released. . I never asked, and I am not asking for an ETA.

gryphonent 11-27-2007 02:11 PM

To clarify: Time Machine is no replacement for SuperDuper, because it backs up every hour, is not customizable, and geared to the less-experienced user who tends to loose stuff. Having said that, I rely on SD for backup of my files once a week. I understand there are issues with Leopard, but reading from your blog these issues deal with... Time Machine. What I'd expect from a responsible developer is a working tool I can rely on, however, that tool doesn't have to be perfect in every sense featurewise. I'd be totally happy if SD would work without backing up Time Machine (don't use it anyway). At the moment though it doesn't work at all. And each day that passes without a backup is one day too much. Proper project management would have resulted in a Leopard compatible version immediately after release that does offer the basics and warn users that certain files won't be backed up or that a bootable backup cannot be created. I don't really need all the stuff ShirtPocket seems to work on at the moment according to the blog. I need a simple smart backup of my regular files!

Nuff said on that topic though. I'm testing SmartBackup as I write this and have also found an old license for SynchronizePro (which, funny enough I dumped for SD's ease of use some years ago). Both of which are fully compatible with Leopard.

dnanian 11-27-2007 02:29 PM

The thing is, gryphonent, that "fully compatible" in this case, isn't true. Unless they handle these things, they're partially compatible. They seem to work for you now, but are you using tools that carefully compare all the files and metadata on both source and copy to check?

As I've said in the blog and here, it's not just Time Machine. Not. These are normal things that can be on normal drives.

It's like properly copying ACLs and EAs. A Tiger user might not notice that those things weren't being copied properly. A Leopard user might not either -- until it's too late, and data's been lost... just because a program today isn't using ACLs or EAs or hard linked folders (etc) doesn't mean it won't start using them tomorrow. Time Machine's just a good test case, because it's pretty over-the-top about this stuff.

MMM 11-27-2007 04:21 PM

Just for the record Dave we fully appreciate your not releasing SuperDuper! until it is completely ready. I certainly hope that you will not rush its development just because some people are making a habit of complaining on this forum. The simple fact is that most likely there is not one single person on this forum that did not know ahead of time that SuperDuper! was not ready for 10.5, and would not be ready for 10.5 for some time, when they installed Leopard on their computer. SuperDuper for Tiger works flawlessly and no one held a gun to anyones head forcing them to upgrade to Leopard and abandon using SuperDuper!. You are correct that people are not being left out in the cold since TM does backup our data. Is it bootable? No, but the fact still remains that our data will be backed up and not get lost with TM. I am not suggesting that at this time you go on a vacation to Maui while everyone waits for a working version of SuperDuper for 10.5, but I am saying that I know we are not alone in appreciating that you and your beta testers are working very hard and doing the job right the first time, instead of rushing SuperDuper! and having to re-issue fixes for it later. Hopefully it won't be much longer until everyone can download SuperDuper! for 10.5. Another way to look at this is that SuperDuper! works so good that now a lot of people are spoiled and don't want to use anything else, so take their complaining as a compliment :p I think we all want the version for 10.5 to work just as well as the one for Tiger did, and that takes time to develop it. So THANKS for all of your hard work, for not charging us an arm and a leg for the product, and for not forcing anyone to re-pay for a "Leopard version" of SuperDuper!. Looking forward for the next great release of SuperDuper! :)

doogald 11-27-2007 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shavital (Post 15722)
I don't consider Time Machine a substitute, even temporary, for SuperDuper!, because Time Machine does not create a bootable backup.

You can boot the Leopard DVD and restore from Time Machine right from the install, though. It's not a bad substitute for now.

I, for one, am patiently waiting for SuperDuper. I'd rather have it right and reliable than learn that there are problems when I most need it. I keep checking for an update, but I trust that there are good reasons why it is not yet ready.

shavital 11-27-2007 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by doogald (Post 15744)
You can boot the Leopard DVD and restore from Time Machine right from the install, though. It's not a bad substitute for now.
I, for one, am patiently waiting for SuperDuper. I'd rather have it right and reliable than learn that there are problems when I most need it. I keep checking for an update, but I trust that there are good reasons why it is not yet ready.

Thanks for the tip about booting into the Leopard DVD to restore from Time Machine.

My concern to have a bootable back up on a external HD relates to the possibility that the computer's HD goes belly up. That happened to me a few months ago, and I could run my laptop from the external FW HD, until I got a replacement HD, because I had a bootable backup.

I am also waiting for SD. On 11/18/07, I e-mailed David:"As a registered user of SuperDuper!, I really appreciate your concern, not to release a Leopard compatible version before you are through with checking and testing. Especially when Leopard seems to be, yet, in some kind of transition/waiting mode."

I have not changed my mind since then, and when I post here about SD, I'm not prodding or complaining, I am just letting off steam (worry, weary, and somehow wary too).

MasterRanger 11-27-2007 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dnanian (Post 15718)
I've been updating the blog, if you've looked there. But I'm not going to release a beta or alpha version to the public, sorry. If you need a backup, you have Time Machine... which does work, and is one of the main "reasons" people jumped on Leopard so quickly, no?

Actually, no... Time Machine does NOT work. I've had Leopard freeze a dozen times since my format/install, leaving me wishing this thing had a Ctrl-Alt-Delete function. The only thing that brings it back is pulling the plug on the machine, or turning off the external Backup drive, then turning off TM (IF the system unlocks when the external is turned off).

Don't even get me started on backing up when I've shared the external drive to my MacBook Pro.

What support comes from Apple? "::crickets::" That's what.

dnanian 11-27-2007 06:44 PM

Leopard freezing up sound like Leopard not working, MasterRanger...

rmf 11-27-2007 07:16 PM

Absolutely AGREE with MMM. I have found Shirtpocket help to be very supportive and responsive over the years. Absolutely top notch. Also, Superduper! has been a great product for me and saved my bacon several times. I want a product that is tested and works solidly. I don't want to trust my data to a beta or something that isn't fully tested, or something that works for a while, but reveals serious flaws after a few uses like CCC. There is a solid alternative, less convenient, but it does work, use disk utility. Booting from install disk and restoring from time machine also works. So, keep up the good work guys. And to those who demand instant gratification, how about waiting to go to x.5 until the things you absolutely positively have to have are absolutely positively actually ready and solid? If you couldn't wait, well, there are consequences from that decision that you made. So ----- enough whining please.


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