What does that have to do with anything?

I'm not getting into a war of words with other users. You're happy? Great. I'm not, and as someone that paid for superduper I can express that opinion. They said they would update the status on superduper. I said I was happy with that. I don't think that's unreasonable. It matters not to me if you agree.

Although, still waiting...

Another alternative is to enjoy 10.4.11 while waiting for Apple to remove the land mines in 10.5.X. I've had a great day with 10.4.11 and its markedly improved Safari. While I sleep, my Mac starts up in the middle of the night to enable SD to continue to work flawlessly to update the three extra copies of the system, apps, and data, after which the Mac shuts down for the rest of the night. I can wait for an SD update to be well-done while Apple works to improve what I think is an unpolished offering in 10.5.X.

I beg to differ, and I've been enjoying Leopard since its release 10/26, and I would not go back to Tiger even if someone paid me to downgrade. The features in Leopard make me not only more productive but have saved me a few times in the last few weeks (Time Machine is great BTW). So far, everything I have works fine except a few programs including of course, SuperDuper, and I have more than 100 applications installed in my MacBook Pro.

Apple has just release the update to Leopard to address a few major issues as well.

So, those of you who are on the fence, I hate to say it, but you don't know what you've been missing.

I suffered a catastrophic crash caused by my previous backup software. SD was recommended to me by an expert in the field and I have found it to be an extremely reliable application that is well thought out and easy to use. Given the trauma of my prior experience, I'm willing to wait for Leopard while SD gets ready for prime time. The security blanket I feel from my good experience here and the ease with which I can keep three separate copies in three different forms comprise a user experience that is hard to beat in my opinion. I'm willing to wait a reasonable time, especially after reading MacFixit's articles on Leopard the last couple of weeks.

What it means is that you could still be using SuperDuper on Tiger. :)

You are entitled to your opinion. Absolutely. However, when you use words like "acceptable" and imply entitlement, you invite commentary. :D

I would respond better if anything you said made sense to me. Nothing is wrong with the word acceptable and there is no entitlement in my comments (your accusation is bizarre). I'm one customer giving my opinion. If you want to play PR person for shirt pocket, fine. But telling a customer 3 weeks after a new OS has come out that they shouldn't have upgraded is laughable.

I *am* a Shirt Pocket customer so I speak to you as a fellow user.

See page 2:

http://www.adobe.com/support/product...ardsupport.pdf

I'm done now. :)

Best wishes

I've been patient so far, but as a paying customer I'm starting to feel left in the dark here. I know you are testing the software thouroughly to make sure it will work but the only information on progress so far is that progress is happening. Some kind of news, anything, would be good. Even documenting some of the issues you've had in getting it to work so we can see why it's taking so long. I don't want to use other software but I may have to try alternatives as I'm sure many of your other customers are doing, as I need the features of superduper.

As a sidenote, because superduper isn't working I have leopard stuck on an external drive. I can't copy the volume to the internal using disk util as the internal volume is slightly smaller (but the external volume is not full). Can anyone recommend another fail-safe way of copying the volume across? Thanks.

I tested Carbon Copy Cloner on my Macs last night, and successfully created bootable Leopard clones to external FW on both; so, there is a seemingly viable alternative right now. That said, I'm a loyal SD customer, and look forward to the polished new version of SD that Dave N will release when it's fully baked.

Hey, everyone? Stop attacking each other. If you're frustrated and need a punching bag, feel free to punch me, OK?

I really don't want to have to start moderating comments -- I've never deleted anything but spam on this forum, even when people start plugging other products, etc. So -- please -- treat each other with respect.

You're welcome to express your frustration -- I'm frustrated too -- but direct that frustration at me.

Thanks.

One of the big challenges, by way of updating, is ensuring we can not just copy a Leopard install -- which is relatively easy -- but can also copy (and Smart Update) a Time Machine volume without doing a "low-level" copy... and also handle the types of file layouts Time Machine employs when used by other applications, should they choose to.

Just so I understand: Are you saying that you feel pretty comfortable with SuperDuper's behavior on Leopard when it's backing up non-TM volumes? That your focus at this point is getting it working for backing up TM volumes properly?

The reason I ask is that if you have a version of SuperDuper! that works well for the former case, I'd be interested in getting that ASAP, even if it didn't work on TM volumes. If I do end up using TM, I'm planning to use it with an external drive anyways, one that I didn't intend to clone via SuperDuper!.

If I have completely misunderstand the point you were trying to make, kindly ignore my request. ;)

Yes, but it's unlikely we'd release a "public beta" of SD! with only that capability. We just haven't completed all our tests, and the changes necessary for full support affect the "cloner", which is critical for all operations.

I agree with Lyle, why would you want to make a backup of a backup ? I have no need to clone Time Machine. I sure hope that's not what we are waiting on. Just give me my old SD with Leopard compatibility.

Dick

Let me emphasize again: it's not just that Time Machine uses these new capabilities. Any application can do so. Properly handling these cases is important for proper copying.

Wow, I never thought there will be such a polemic discussion :confused:

As I see it, those who updated early to Leopard, should have taken into consideration that there are still, important apps that are NOT fully working, reliable enough or plainly useless for Leopard yet.
This is my case, I can NOT upgrade because MOTU's Digital Performer Audio recording application (vital for my line of work) is not yet fully compatible with Leopard, thus turning my anxious desire to update, into an exercise on patience, which btw, I consider some of us should practice a little.

Now, if some of the people here already took the plunge, well, you'll have to practice patience want it or not! that is only IF you need to use SD with the confidence that WE ALL are used to. I do not doubt that CCC is a great utility, but IMO SD is superior and just for that single reason I personally would wait the time it takes.

Very few people in the Software Industry, gets as deep into servicing his/her customers as Dave does. I am sure that most of us recognize this, and if it was only for the service provided here by Dave, I would wait even longer.

This also reminds me of a traffic jam on which some guys start to get desperate and sound the car's horn without noticing that the street is being repaired a few meters ahead, just to prevent cars from damaging.
Nothing is achieved by the horn sounding, because that is not going to make the repair process any faster ;)

finally some wise and calm words in here :) i can second this :) keep up with the good work dave and release when things are done and run solid :)

Slow Clap
:D

the wait
 

To those who are waiting for Leopard to get the little bugs worked out, and for SuperDuper to be Leopard friendly, I say: that is fine! But, my earlier point is that for those of us enjoying Leopard already, there is simply no need to go w/o proper backups. By suggesting CCC, I was endorsing that program from years of usage... never with any problems. I like the SuperDuper GUI better, but, hey... both really end up doing the same thing. So, if you are using Leopard, and want a good clone backup (bootable), do not take a chance, and use some other method to make your back ups. I would not trust my valuable data to a no back up scenario... waiting for SuperDuper is fine, but be wise and use an alternative for the time being.

:D Wow, LOL for the duration of the movie, please make it a little faster :)

When? when?
 

This is getting long in the tooth!

Damn thing's been out for 22 days. Dev builds were floating around the net long before (Nod, nod, wink, wink).

I don't want to switch to another backup software. I bought this one!

I am disappointed :(

Please see the blog for an update.

I always think a new OS needs at least 2 updates to be worth getting. They've done one so far and just recently. I am also waiting for some software to update. SD! isn't the only "must-have" software of mine that has not been updated to Leopard.

Besides, Tiger is working so flawlessly right now I hate to let it go. So I am not changing for a little bit yet.

Thank you - this is exactly what I was hoping for. Now I know at least something about the progress of SD and I know that a release is not impending so I can go ahead and make provisions to stay backed-up until it's released. Thanks Dave.

Time Machine Backups are Irrelevant
 

I've been patient up to now, but that ends here.

If all I'm waiting for is the ability to backup my Time Machine volumes, I don't really have any need for that. Time Machine is going to get turned off when I finally get to use SD again. Time Machine is useless for me, except as a stop-gap while I wait for SD to be ready for Leopard. I'm sure I'm not alone in this.

Please release a version that works, with the caveat that it won't backup TM volumes. I don't care if it's perfect for everyone, it just needs to work for most of us right now.

--Bill

You've lead a sheltered life.

Well, you see it wrong. It's not the responsibility of the consumer to ensure that the products s/he pays for work properly. That's just nuts.

Now you're insulting me, and all the other hard-working software engineers out there.

Dave seems like a great guy and all, but he'd do himself and everyone else here a service if he'd quit reading the damn forums and just get the release out. Frankly I was surprised, and not pleasantly so, to see how much he posts in these forums.

If you really think that they guy who honks his horn in traffic does so to get the traffic ahead of him to move faster, you're even more naive than I thought you were. Which was already a lot.

--B

It's not just backing up Time Machine volumes, Bill. It's properly handling the structures involved, which can be used by any application.

Perspective
 

There are still things that don't work quite right with third party products and Vista, over a year after its release. Video drivers are often still buggy; and there are still plenty of things that don't work quite as they used to in XP. And Microsoft devotes far more resources to developers than Apple will ever have.

Carbon Copy Clone doesn't always work quite right, judging by my own experience and the user forums. It does seem that Leopard may have been much more than just an incremental upgrade over Tiger; not that I've ever written code under OS X.

Now who's being "naive" ???

As having worked on both sides of the fence, hardward/network administration and now software development I can tell you if you install something without testing that everything you want to run will run you're not only naive you're probably close to being unemployed. Especially something like an OS upgrade. The consumer does have some responsibility here.

I think hardware people have a better grasp of this concept than software people. Especially when it comes to backup software and OS upgrades.

As for your comments about dnanian. That is just off base and rude. He may not be the best communicator but he's honest and I think hard working. I can just imagine the posts if he released something knowing it wouldn't work. One of the things I like best is the fact that I can come here and post and get a fast response. I may have to ask for clarification but he's on it.

You are a consumer. If you don't like the way SD works with Leopard either downgrade to 10.4.11 or find another solution. If you need help downgrading maybe we can help. Ask nicely. If we can't there are the apple support forums or maybe even tech support. I know, they're not the best but if you're half the techie you claim to be you should be able to deal with this situation better than you are.

I think you owe dnanian an apology. It's one thing to make requests and suggestions and maybe even tell him what you don't like but your comments were just rude.

I have made a choice. I forged ahead with Leopard knowing that Time Machine was suspect and SD wouldn't make a bootable copy. I choose to figure out how to make TM work and use that. Again, my choice. If things go south I won't have anything to work on without an install to an external and restore or an internal HD replacement and restore. Leopard isn't perfect by any means but there are reasons I need to use it.

As I understand it, SD will work with Leopard. It just won't make bootable copies? But you still have all your files backed up.

I look forward to the new release of SD. A stable release that I'm sure will be even better than what we enjoy now.

No apologies necessary: as I said, you're welcome to be rude to me, express your frustration, etc (within reason, of course). Just don't be rude to each other, eh?

I was doing some testing with my Mac Mini and a FW400 drive. I was warned on another board that I was putting my OS at risk. Well that's OK because it's just a test system. Well I did accidently blow my OS away.

Then it took the usual amount of time to reinstall Leopard. More of a time consuming hassle than I remembered. Man, I wished i had of had a backup.

I'm using CCC now and it does work. I want my SuperDuper, but TimeMachine just doesn't cut it.

Thanks for posting an alternative.

It "sorta" worked for me, but ...
 

I did a backup from Leopard so that I could install the 10.5.1 update, and I did not realize that SuperDuper was not "Leopard-ready". It seemed to have backed up all the data files and applications, and the backup drive has almost the same amount of space used as the original. I booted from the backup and that worked, but some issues were immediately obvious: My desktop and dock preferences were not maintained. Instead they were the default values and the dock had only the default items in it - not the large number of applications and folders that were in my original, and not on the left side of my screen. I suspect that I could restore from this backup if necessary, but clearly some of the preferences are not being properly saved so I will hold off on my update to 10.5.1 until I know for sure that I have a backup I can trust.

Oh boy, another desperate, arrogant self centered guy!!!
Yeah, whatever dude, you are certainly right and everybody else is wrong.

Good for you !!! At least, being naive spares me the mental problems that anxiety creates on people like you. :rolleyes:

Been there; done that; have mutiple t-shirts.

What I would recommend in your specific case is to downgrade to 10.4.11, and do a migration from the SD backup you now have. Once everything is back to normal, complete a new SD backup and wait for SD to be Leopard compatible. If SD is your bread and butter backup, it is as good as it gets for now. Probably not the answer you want to hear, but at least your data will be safe.