Shirt Pocket Discussions

Shirt Pocket Discussions (https://www.shirt-pocket.com/forums/index.php)
-   General (https://www.shirt-pocket.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=6)
-   -   S.D. always fails with Mac OS 10.4.8 (https://www.shirt-pocket.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1715)

danM 10-16-2006 07:30 PM

S.D. always fails with Mac OS 10.4.8
 
I just can not get S.D. to work with Mac OS 10.4.8. on an Intel Mac Mini.

A full clone always stops when the blue progress band is about 75% of the way along to the end. The S.D. display just vanishes and the clone is incomplete.

I'm told there is a graphical problem which affects S.D. sometimes - but I always have the problem.

Has anyone any solution - otherwise Super Duper is unusable.


Dan.

dnanian 10-16-2006 09:59 PM

This is, unfortunately, a bug in 10.4.8 that's not SuperDuper! specific, and seems to be affecting some users. It's intermittent for most, but obviously not you.

We've reported it to Apple and are trying to come up with a workaround internally, too... I'm sorry for the frustration!

danM 10-17-2006 03:33 AM

While I accept the above - I was hoping some member might have found a solution, if indeed one is possible. Does any other forum member have similar trouble ?

dan

dnanian 10-17-2006 11:49 AM

The real solution, for now, is to go to 10.4.7 instead (if you're not using a Sandbox, you can archive-and-install to your base version and update to 10.4.7 with a download).

I realize this is frustrating and annoying; we're doing our best at this end to come up with a workaround.

(The problem seems to be with threaded access to window updates; our progress indicator is set to update on its own thread, and the "main thread" updates too. But Core Graphics -- which handles the low level updating -- looks to be having a new problem with locking, and crashes either the main thread or the progress indicator thread when there's contention...)

danM 10-17-2006 12:11 PM

I do hope you succeed. In the meantime I'm surprised that more users are not reporting the same trouble - is the type of Mac a factor, or is the problem
likely on any Mac running 10.4.8 ?

dan

dnanian 10-17-2006 12:29 PM

Honestly, I don't know -- it doesn't happen to me on any of my Macs, but it definitely seems to be Intel-specific.

Budgie 10-17-2006 02:20 PM

Hi

No problems here, on any of my Mac's, G5 PPC 2ghz, iMac (4.1) 2ghz Intel, G4 PPC 800 mhz, and my OSX Server, all machines are running 10.4.8 with SD and doing it sweetly.

Budgie

danM 10-18-2006 04:59 AM

Tried again this morning to use Super D. to clone all - came back to discover a black screen containing this ----

"Darwin/BSD (Dan-0.local)(console)
login oct 18 09:19:05 Dan-0 diskarbitrational [41]:
SD copy[366]:32935 not responding"

Now what is the matter ? (Dan-0 is computer name.)

dnanian 10-18-2006 09:03 AM

It sounds like your Mac crashed, Dan, likely because the destination drive failed pretty badly during the copy.

edalzell 10-18-2006 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dnanian (Post 8927)
(The problem seems to be with threaded access to window updates; our progress indicator is set to update on its own thread, and the "main thread" updates too. But Core Graphics -- which handles the low level updating -- looks to be having a new problem with locking, and crashes either the main thread or the progress indicator thread when there's contention...)

I wonder if it has something to do with the shared video memory of MacBook? Have you noticed any commonality on the machines that they are being run on?

I have a MB so I will try a backup this week and let you know how it goes.

dnanian 10-18-2006 11:17 AM

It doesn't seem to have to do with that, Ed -- we've seen it on MacBook Pros, too, and they have a dedicated video card.

glenn 10-19-2006 09:41 PM

Intel Macs running 10.4.8 and SD not compatible
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dnanian (Post 8959)
It doesn't seem to have to do with that, Ed -- we've seen it on MacBook Pros, too, and they have a dedicated video card.

I've tried SD 2.1.3 on these Intel Macs: Mac Mini, MacBook and Mac Pro and it fails each time. It was working well under 10.4.7 on Intel Mac systems but now it crashes about 75% before completing.

SD 2.1.3 and Mac OS 10.4.8 on any PowerPC system works without any issues for me...

dnanian 10-19-2006 10:12 PM

Right. I'm not having the problem here -- so it's not consistent -- but we are aware of the issue, we've reported to Apple, and they know about it. It is not SuperDuper! specific. How long it might be before they address the underlying problem is anyone's guess.

We're looking into workarounds on our end.

danM 10-21-2006 05:35 AM

-- from thread originator
 
I tried using an alternate cloner, (sorry Super D.)! - it worked OK, but took about 3 times as long to do the clone - so is not usable in the longer term.

dan

dnanian 10-21-2006 09:13 AM

The problem is not in file copying as such, dan -- it's a graphics problem in Core Graphics...

maccaa 10-21-2006 02:51 PM

Me to
 
danM, just to complete the Apple range, 20" iMac core duo 10.4.8 having the same issues. 75% then application exit, any update on a resolution?

Cheers

Maccaa

dnanian 10-21-2006 02:58 PM

It's really not a percentage thing, it's rather intermittent... we're trying to work around the problem...

maccaa 10-21-2006 06:52 PM

Thanks
 
dnanian, appreciate your efforts.

Thanks

Maccaa

jivan 10-24-2006 07:49 PM

...and me
 
I'm having the same problem on my 20" iMac Core 2 Duo with 10.4.8.

Up 'till 10.4.8 and this machine (it's new), SD worked like a charm. Fails at all different spots for me...not just 75%. Right now it's hung at about 45% of about 375GB. Occurs for me about 50% of the time I try to do a smart update.

On one of the hangs, an attempt to force quit and re-mount my FireWire RAID drive found my RAID munged. I had to reformat and create a new RAID to get it working again. Thankfully, it's "only" my backup drive and not original data.

I can usually fix it by starting over with a erase/backup session, but that's WAY longer than a smart update when only a few files have changed.

Workaround or Apple fix, it would be nice to get this resolved. I've learned the hard way not to get too far behind in backups, but hangs during backups scare me, too.

Thx.

dnanian 10-24-2006 08:02 PM

This is an entirely different issue, jivan. If your RAID is munged and is failing strangely, you're having a hardware problem with the drive... anything else on FireWire?

dnanian 10-26-2006 09:38 AM

Glenn --

We've now had a number of users report that this problem is fixed if you use the Tiger disc that came with your Mac to install the original copy of Tiger (using Archive-and-install, so your data isn't touched), then download and apply the Combo update to get back to 10.4.8.

Could you give that a try and let me know if it fixes things for you?

dnanian 10-26-2006 09:39 AM

(Jivan and "maccaa" -- please see my note to Glenn, above -- I'd like to see if this works for you, too.)

Vince-from fr 10-26-2006 06:20 PM

Same problem to me : Mac OS X 10.4.8 + Intel MacBook Pro + SD 2.1.3 = crash.
My solution : reboot with deactivated extensions.
The clone I made on an external FW disk is fully usable.
Hope this solution will help some lost users.

dnanian 10-26-2006 10:47 PM

Hey, Vince -- could you try my suggestion above and see if that works?

maccaa 10-27-2006 09:10 AM

Not sure!
 
Hmmm,

dnanian, took the plunge this morning, reloaded OS X from install disk then went on to update to combo 10.4.8...took a little time! checked that all out ok.

Then went to run super duper...1st time it crashed after about 4-5 mins,restarted it, second time it worked, full back up no problem. Now I have a reliable back up I am a little hesitant to try again to check if the first time I was just unlucky, maybe Jivan and Glenn can give it a go as well to see how they get on and report back. If they are also successful I will be confident.

I await a report fron J and G.

Cheers

Maccaa

dnanian 10-27-2006 09:41 AM

Could you send me the crash report from the failure? (Send it to support via email.)

maccaa 10-27-2006 09:59 AM

Sent
 
Hi dnanian,

log sent via the "send to shirt pocket" button in the log screen

Is that how you wanted it? or a copy and paste job.

Sorry not very good with these "log" thingys

Maccaa

dnanian 10-27-2006 10:07 AM

Perfect; thanks.

Vince-from fr 10-28-2006 04:22 AM

Sorry dnanian, but I use that computer for my work, and I have a lot of other sofware installed. I can't take the risk to reinstall all that as long as I haven't a sure solution to recover my system (like SuperDuper! indeed ;))
But I can send you my old SD crash logs if you want.

dnanian 10-28-2006 10:00 AM

Nope, unnecessary. While this seems to work for a few people, we've had one report that it didn't fix things.

It's likely your crash log is exactly the same as all the others.

Unless we come up with something brilliant, it looks like we're going to have to wait for Apple to fix this bug.

dnanian 10-29-2006 09:05 AM

OK, thanks. This really seems to be a general problem in 10.4.8. It's hitting us along with other applications.

If this is happening to you, I strongly suggest sticking with 10.4.7 until Apple addresses the issue.

sfm 10-29-2006 09:05 AM

Reinstall of OSX doesn't help (completed post)
 
MacBook 2GhZ; 2 GB RAM, purchased 3 weeks ago.

MacBook came with OSX v10.4.6. SD v2.1.3 worked fine.
Apple Software Update (ASU) to v10.4.7. SD v2.1.3 worked fine.
ASU JSE and Quicktime. SD v2.1.3 works fine.
ASU to v10.4.8. SD v2.1.3 no longer works - crashes SD itself, with crash report, and/or crashes all the way back to the finder login, with no crash report.
(also had similar crashes of TextEdit and Microsoft Office Word 2004 (with latest updates.))
Reported to Shirt Pocket and Apple (they didn't seem to like it much that both one of their apps and a Microsoft app also crashed, probably because it points toward an Apple problem.)
Did all the Apple suggestions (PMMU etc. etc.), and also deleted SD preferences and downloaded another SD copy. SD still crashes.

Archive and reinstall v10.4.6.
ASU to v10.4.7.
ASU JSE and Quicktime. SD v2.1.3 works.

ASU fan firmware update.
Combo update to v10.4.8. SD v2.1.3 crashes again.

Archive and reinstall v10.4.6.
Delete previous system folder.
Combo update directly to v10.4.8. SD v2.1.3 crashes again, although it makes it 99% of the way through a full backup before crashing, the farthest so far.
ASU JSE and Quicktime. SD v2.1.3 still crashes.

Archive and reinstall v10.4.6 again.
Delete previous system folder.
ASU JSE and Quicktime.
Combo update to v10.4.7. SD v2.1.3 works again.

(I also tried backing up using a USB connection to my external backup hard drive, instead of my normal firewire connection. No change - SD still crashes.)


I'll stop fiddling now...


I observed one thing that may or may not be helpful to diagnose this issue further:

1. I have multiple hard drives that I backup to. After discovering that I needed to partition using the GUID format, not the APM format, to make a bootable Intel backup, I did that. I have noticed that the original names that I give to the partition that I'm attempting to backup to are usually CHANGED after the attempted backup. A space and the number 1 is added to the end of that partition name, - the changed name is visible in the SD drive list, and in the Disk Utility partition list on the left, but NOT in the Disk Utility partition name when I go to the partition tab, and NOT in the finder. Weird.

Also, if you have multiple computers and hard drives, I discovered that I can make a backup of the MacBook with OSX v10.4.8 installed using SD v2.1.3 on another computer, in this kludged way:

Start up from one of my other PowerBooks, with OSX v10.4.8.
Connect to the MacBook (with OSX v10.4.8) in the firewire target disk mode.
Chain a backup hard drive with another firewire cable.
Use SD v2.1.3 and select the firewire target mode MacBook as the backup source, and the backup firewire hard drive as the destination.
Backup completes, although more slowly than when doing it directly from the source MacBook drive itself (with OSX v10.4.7, since SD 2.1.3 crashes with v10.4.8 on the MacBook, as described above.)

dnanian 10-29-2006 09:08 AM

Thanks for the additional information. As I said above, this pretty much confirms what I feared: 10.4.8 has a bug, and -- unfortunately -- its intermittent nature causes some "mystery" fixes (like a combo update application) to "look" like it works, but it doesn't.

The only fix for this at present is to go back to 10.4.7. We've got some ways to "shrink the window" where the bug happens (which has to do with screen updates), which should help to minimize the effect. But we can only do so much, alas.

adam78 11-05-2006 04:34 AM

I think I'm having the same problem. Macbook Pro, 10.4.8. SuperDuper previously worked well backing up to an external Firewire drive when I was running 10.4.7. Now the backup gets about 60-70% through (according to progress bar) and perhaps more (according to the count of the files analysed), and stalls. My CPU usage goes through the roof and practically locks up my system. :( Just wanted to let you know.

dnanian 11-05-2006 10:18 AM

No, that's an entirely different problem, actually. Open the Activity Monitor and look to see what's taking all the CPU when things have trouble...

Vince-from fr 11-05-2006 11:26 AM

Did some tried my little solution : to start with all extensions deactivated ? It worked for me.

maccaa 11-06-2006 07:52 AM

?
 
Hi Vince,

Can you explain how do you disable extensions?

Maccaa

MacVmUser 11-06-2006 12:46 PM

Is problem resolved?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Vince-from fr (Post 9204)
Did some tried my little solution : to start with all extensions deactivated ? It worked for me.

I'd also like to know if this is a valid workaround.

Beyond that, has Apple resolved this issue yet? Is it now safe to update to 10.4.8... or should we stay with 10.4.7 to ensure continued operation of S.D. on intel-based Macs?

Thanks for this thread!

dnanian 11-06-2006 12:47 PM

This has not been resolved. Please stick with 10.4.7 for now: it's the surest "workaround"...

jivan 11-07-2006 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dnanian (Post 9054)
This is an entirely different issue, jivan. If your RAID is munged and is failing strangely, you're having a hardware problem with the drive... anything else on FireWire?

Sorry for the delayed reply. I think it's the same issue. The munged RAID only occurred once, but I think it was caused by having to hot restart the drive to get it to reappear after my iMac hung. Maybe it was still being written to at the time. I'm having the same problems as everyone else on this thread. No more problems with munged RAID, but consistent hangs.

No other items on the FW bus.

FWIW, I'm getting hangs with Carbon Copy Cloner as well. Hope a fix comes in from Apple (or you guys find a workaround). The only working backup solution seems to be Apple's and that's a lousy one.

Thx.


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:58 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.